CragBaby - Latest Comments in My First Scathing Blog Comment

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

EPG — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 07:33:16 -0000

People don't comment to make you feel horrible. Most of us have better things to do. The commenter probably saw, like I saw, red flags in the things you said that seemed to imply that it was likely a mistake similar to this could happen to you again, and he was trying to prevent that, by drawing attention to you to your assumptions. Basically, he was stating that you need a bit more experience and common sense, and that is not won overnight, nor will it be won just after one accident. Please stay safe, and be cautious not *because you had an accident*, but be cautions *because you're cautious*.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

EPG — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 07:30:43 -0000

Yes, but this dismisses the fact that the climber and belayer are a TEAM. They are *both* responsible. Thus, the belayer has the responsibility to check the climber, and ask if something seems weird. Or would you as a belayer keep quiet if you saw something amiss or dangerous your climber was doing because "it is the climber's personal responsibility only to keep himself/herself safe"? That doesn't make any sense at all. Otherwise one might as well climb solo. Belayers are technically not needed with modern self-belay devices. So why do we climb with them then? For the scintillating conversation?

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

EPG — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 07:21:55 -0000

Oh, and one last thing. If you were more experienced outdoors, you would never use the "I've never seen anyone wear a helmet" as an excuse for not wearing one yourself. All it takes is a dropped biner landing a few feet away from you, for you to decide to never, ever belay without a helmet ever again. More experienced folks are trying to save you this particular experience, because you might not be so lucky that one first time, like some of us have been.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

EPG — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 07:10:40 -0000

Basically, what the commenter was telling you was that you need more experience doing multipitch trad. This will give you a better eye for recognizing systems such as the one you used that caused your accidents and for knowing what your climber is doing at the anchor. He was saying that simple single pitch sport climbing, regardless of the level at which you climb at, doesn't give you this experience and you are in danger of becoming a very one-sided and therefore unsafe climber. He does have a point.

More experience gives you a feel for knowing when you should double check your climber. If you could see them you could've, for instance, before lowering them, taken in the rope and asked them if they were sure they were on the rope before letting them untie from the anchors (I always perform this check with my climbers regardless of whether I know them well or not, so long as I can see or communicate with them). Also, by the way, when one ties into the ancors it is called being "tied-in direct", not "being indirect". Your incorrect usage of the terms also evidences inexperience. All the commenter was saying was that, when you're inexperienced, please don't go on and do things of which you're not sure about. If you're not sure you understand your climber's system, it is your responsibility to either understand it or not participate. People, as you yourself saw, can very easily die. Unfortunately, climbing at "hard" grades like 5.12 gives some people the false sense of being "experienced" even though maybe they're experienced only at making hard gymnastic moves and not "experienced" enough to have developed some climbing safety common sense. Don't be one of them, and don't dismiss the commenter's advice and substance even though you disagree with the manner in which it was delivered. None of us wants to see another accident, so take things with the good intentions they were meant, and learn from them.

Stay safe.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

Jonesy — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:22:46 -0000

Pardon my for my language but F#ck that guy/girl. I agree that the belayer is responsible for the safety of the climber but when you are separated by the distance of the entire climb certain things are out of your hands. Instead of berating you over this event I hope the climbing community can learn the simple lesson of weighting their rope EVERY time before coming off direct. That is a lesson sadly learned the hard way by your friend but still she lives to (eventually and hopefully) climb another day.

I know if I were in your shoes I would find it incredibly hard not to blame myself but from an outsider's perspective I hope you can move past this and continue to enjoy climbing. Coincidentally enough I sent Ro' today for the first time and it is an awesome route. Please don't let this memory keep you from it and other excellent climbs. Learn from it - don't lose from it. Take care - and if you're ever climbing in the TN/Ga. and need a catch, feel free to hit me up.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

Dave Decoteau — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:49:46 -0000

Hi,

I read all about the accident...sucks (accident...not the writing). Thank you for describing it all in detail. I don't necessarily enjoy reading about other peoples misfortunes but I do like to learn from them. I am a 30 yo male and have been climbing (mostly trad) for 13 years. I have climbed all over the US (no international) and have never heard of or read about such a set up for top roping so it is understandable how you could be confused...I was until I saw the pic. I think the persons comments about the accident were a bit scathing no doubt but I can understand their frustration (frustration leads to anger). I think we should all learn from this mistake and take something away from it. I have read numerous accident reports about simple communication errors and have changed my procedures to include a talk with my climber/ belayer about what will go down in regards to lowering off/ rappelling etc. so that we have a game plan that will work before anyone leaves the ground. That leaves less chance of an error (Duh I know). As far as the helmet thing goes...my opinion is... why not? I know that nobody does it and I get some strange looks when I'm rocking a 5.12, 1 pitch, sport lead, but I don't really give a crap cuz my brain is worth more to me than my ego. I don't want to preach but I have a good friend who works with brain injured people and she scared me straight. She told me of a well respected, 40 something doctor who had the misfortune of tripping on some concrete steps, taking a little tumble and knocking her head...She is trying to learn her shapes and colors these days. I know...that can happen to anybody but I keep thinking of catching my leg behind the rope, flipping upside down, and whack! It's over. I just think I'd look a whole lot dumber drooling on myself than wearing my big old sticker covered Ecrin..besides it's good training weight. Come to think of it...maybe I should start wearing it while I boulder...Nahh. To each there own. Be safe out there and thanks for the blog! If your ever in Seattle area feel free to look me up for some route beta or a trip!

Dave:)

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

Pat — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:48:07 -0000

#1 - Each climber is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for their own safety.
#2 - Each climber has a personal responsibility to keep themselves safe.
#3 - Didn't I just say the same things in #1 & #2? :)

I read a little bit of the douchebags comments to you. I believe the above statement is the correct one not only in climbing but in all aspects of life. If there is any question in a belay or climbing system any confusion at all DONT DO IT. Heal up Marcy you sound like an incredible person!

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 16:47:52 -0000

Thanks for the nice thoughts, Porscha. I greatly appreciated your phone call after the accident and for your continual support. I'm not sure if I will ever get back on the rope, but if not... let's get out and boulder and hike. =)
Hope you are well.
Rachel

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

Porscha — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:05:55 -0000

I am rather surprised that mr. anonymous bothered to post such a large negative comment and hasn't come back to continually criticize. I'm glad he hasn't been back though!

The idea that the belayer is the sole means of safety is just ridiculous. Each person has sole responsibility of their own safety, whether that means making sure that their belayer understands the system and can belay you, they are placing good protection, using a correct anchor system, or anything along those lines. The idea of having a climbing partner is really to have someone else be able to look at your system and hopefully aid in keeping you safe.

That being said, Rachel definitely could have decided not to belay or use a more straight forward belay, but she freely admitted that and posted this account to help everyone avoid a similar mistake. I definitely admire you, Rachel, and your honesty with the situation. Thanks for giving us all a chance to avoid an accident and maybe re-realize just how dangerous climbing can be.

I hope that you can get back on a rope again!

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:53:12 -0000

Thanks, Tim.
Yeah, I was waiting for a response on this post, but so far nothing. Interesting, eh?
I guess I just thought my first scathing blog comment would be on my business blog with someone stating I was clueless... or something along that vein. Must admit it took me by surprise that it was on this blog and concerning a very traumatic experience.

Thanks for the comment. Hope you are well. =)
Rach

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 09:51:27 -0000

Ha!

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

TimWalker — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 08:55:16 -0000

The commenter's absence doesn't surprise me. *Sometimes* you'll get an antagonistic commenter who comes back to fight more, but often it's a drive-by venting. *shrug*

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

TimWalker — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:04:36 -0000

Stay strong, lady. It's always amazing to me when folks who pride themselves on their bluntness / honesty / "You can't HANDLE the truth!" demeanor say that they don't apologize for hurting anybody's feelings . . . but then also make it impossible for you to follow up with them. In this vein, I note that the commenter hasn't yet seen fit to comment on *this* post, either. Ehh, it matches my experience as a listserv moderator to a T.

Keep on rockin'.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

James Tucker — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 04:15:12 -0000

I think this pretty much sums it up:

http://www.penny-arcade.com...

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:06:06 -0000

Jun,
Thanks so much for the nice comment and thoughts on climbing accident. I really appreciate you stopping by, reading my blog and posting up your thoughts.
Hope you are well.
Best.
Rachel

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

Jun - Craig — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:17:10 -0000

I just wanted to add my two cents.

I want to just commend you Rachel for 1) your maturity in handling the comment provided by an apparent coward, and 2) above all things your respect for the victims of each accident. They deserve our condolences, not our scrutiny.

Accidents happen. With increased numbers of people climbing they will become more and more prevalent. And with the immediate coverage experiences like this receive thanks to the popularity of the internet they will draw out the bottom feeders, those who are only out there to drag others down to make themselves feel more important.

I'm grateful for friends like you who care enough to share these experiences out of respect and concern for future climbers. Yours was an educated post designed to help anyone who might find themselves in a similar situation, regardless of experience and ability.

Thank you.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:10:36 -0000

HA HA... sorry, Phil. I think one climber did have a helmet on that day. But I have climbed many helmet-less days with Neal. I should actually probably start wearing one if I ever hop on a rope again.
Thanks for stopping by.
Best.
Rachel

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 14:09:18 -0000

Thanks for the comment, girl. When I posted up this comment I was in good spirits... but it is amazing how this guy's words wore on me through the day. It has been 6 weeks since the accident and I am definitely still healing. This one asshole comment really got me thinking about the whole scenario again and how I could have changed it, etc. I don't know if his comment was just to make me feel horrible.. but the thing is I already feel horrible on my own about the whole incident. I am hoping time will just heal things.
Thanks for the comment and support.
Hope you are well.
Best.
Rachel

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

Kate C — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:55:04 -0000

Oh yeah, and when I wrote, "Lin Hill," I, of course, meant Lynn Hill. :) Oops.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

Kate C — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 11:49:39 -0000

Wow, wow, wow. What a self-rightous a-hole. I may not have been climbing for 30 years, but I have learned plenty myself, and I completely disagree with his three rules. The idea that the belayer is responsible for the safety of everybody involved is simply ludicrous. The belayer is just a backup system. Here are three reasonable rules:
#1 - Each climber is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for their own safety.
#2 - Each climber has a personal responsibility to keep themselves safe.
#3 - Didn't I just say the same things in #1 & #2? :)

Just to add to Anna's example, Lin Hill's book begins with a "stupid" accident. She didn't finish tying her knot before beginning climbing, and fell 70ft from the anchors. Theoretically, the belayer could have caught this, but it is still her personal responsibility to check and test all of her safety systems, and that's how she bottom-lines her own accident. Lin Hill did not start climbing in a gym. She started climbing before there was such a thing as sport climbing. Even when she had her accident, she was considered a legend in the community. So yes, everybody makes mistakes. Hopefully we will all be lucky enough to accept responsibility and move on with our lives.

Rachel, you did the best you could. And I know the climber was your friend, but I believe each climber has to do everything they can to keep themselves safe. I think your honesty in blogging and posting about the accident are exemplary, and you are a very capable, very good climber.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

Phil — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:16:50 -0000

Yeah, pretty cowardly to have a go like that and not post a name or a link to your own content. Also shows no respect for the victims of the accidents mentioned.

Most of us have been lucky enough to only have had near accidents at worst. In my own case I'm still writing because I triple check everything at the end of the day, when dehydration and tiredness have taken there toll, the third check stopped me from having a fatal accident abing off a multipitch. I still get the shivers when I think about it.

Just in the defence of Irish climbers, most of us do climb with a helmet even on the single pitch stuff. (I hope you're listening Neal!)

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

lil chicka — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:41:19 -0000

Clearly written by a ball-less, anonymous troll with little to no understanding of what actually happened in either accident scenario.

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:27:49 -0000

Ha ha ha! Thanks, Bj. You do have to take the good with the bad. It just shocked me as I thought for sure my first scathing comment would come on my business blog with someone writing, "you are clueless!" or something along those lines. I truly didn't expect someone to try and convince me of my lack of climbing skills, let alone try to convince me I was the sole reason for my recent climbing accident. Geez! Ah well, I must expect such comments if having an online presence.

Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I appreciate it.
Best.
Rachel

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:25:19 -0000

Ha ha... interesting insight on the name used. Thanks, Ed.
Best.
Rachel

Re: My First Scathing Blog Comment

WasatchGirl — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:24:50 -0000

Zirkel,
Thanks for stopping by and commenting. One of the best aspects of blogging is the new friends I meet through my posts. So, nice to meet you. =)

Yeah, as a blogger you have to expect people to post up ridiculous comments. I had just hadn't experienced one yet.... at least not on my personal site. It quite shocked me... but is still only one tinge of negativity to the whole pool of positive that has resulted from this site.

Thanks for your thoughts on my travels mid-career. I will keep posting up and hope you stop by again.
Best.
Rachel