I am very disgusted by the comment. Not only do they not understand the situation with Ben and Laura, but I think it is too soon, out of RESPECT, for the friends and family to start discussing how " the teenaged victims apparently did not know enough to recognize a suspect anchor and then proceeded to lower from a single fixed anchor without backing it up." You weren't there, you don't know what happened. No one knows exactly what happened, everything is only speculation. Another thing, you can't relate military or hillbilly "rapplin" to rock climbing. The two are very different, along with the people who participate. Not only that but Rachel, like every other person, is human. People make mistakes. People trust their friends who are more knowledgeable in certain areas. Not to mention there was nothing Rachel, as the belayer, could have done other than ask "Do you think you have everything right?" or something of that nature. Other than that the responsibility was on the climbing while she was cleaning. Also your comment "but I am sick of watching stupid people do stupid things, and then failing to understand their complicity in their own stupidity." is completely false...Rachel wrote an ENTIRE BLOG about what happened, how it happened, and could have been avoided. Climbing is a dangerous sport and numerous things can go wrong that are out of the control of the belayer.
Here is just ONE example: -A climber is doing a trad line that goes out of the view of the blayer for a few pitches and THEY make the decision to not protect the next 10 or 15 feet and fall before they can make another placement and deck
I agree with you on some points where climbers are becoming less careful and cocky. I've seen it numerous times. I also agree with what you say about people who can physically climb hard in the gym and missing out on key basic parts of climbing outside, making them more dangerous. But I think to generalize everyone into those categories is unfair and ignorant.
I agree with Rachel, what were you trying to achieve by posting this and what kind of a coward doesn't even put their name.
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
Thanks for your comment, Anna. I agree completely that it was out of line, ESPECIALLY opining on the Ben / Laura accident.
Thanks for stopping by the blog. Hope you are well. Rachel
zirkel
· 1 year ago
As a blogger, unfortunately, you have to tolerate comments from overly-sensitive and otherwise opinionated individuals (I'll refrain from calling them idiots) to your blog. But readers need to understand that this is an outlet for YOUR content and not a debate between the author and reader(s).
I personally enjoy your perspective and admire the fact that you're able to road trip and climb extensively mid-career. Understand that retrospection and accident review is certainly beneficial for preventing similar mistakes from occurring in the future -- but placing blame does nothing to absolve the issue. That's your cross to bear, so to speak. My suggestions is: 1) acknowledge that idiots are out there and will always have something, relevant or otherwise, to say and 2) don't take it personal.
Of course, you can also disable reader comments.
Enjoy the rest of your road trip and keep posting reports, pics and your perspective.
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
Zirkel, Thanks for stopping by and commenting. One of the best aspects of blogging is the new friends I meet through my posts. So, nice to meet you. =)
Yeah, as a blogger you have to expect people to post up ridiculous comments. I had just hadn't experienced one yet.... at least not on my personal site. It quite shocked me... but is still only one tinge of negativity to the whole pool of positive that has resulted from this site.
Thanks for your thoughts on my travels mid-career. I will keep posting up and hope you stop by again. Best. Rachel
Edward Lyman
· 1 year ago
Just another example of a know-it-all, self-righteous prick. Which is in keeping with his choice of moniker, Beelzebub, god of the Philistines. Let's try and forget he exists.
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
Ha ha... interesting insight on the name used. Thanks, Ed. Best. Rachel
bj sbarra
· 1 year ago
You gotta take the good with the bad, eh? I have a couple dedicated haters that poke up from time to time, but they are the small minority. I've decided the next crag I develop is going to have an "internet tough guy" wall named for people like this. I mean really, who has the time to come up with something like that? What a tool. I bet he's never made a mistake in his whole life. Must be nice to be so perfect...
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
Ha ha ha! Thanks, Bj. You do have to take the good with the bad. It just shocked me as I thought for sure my first scathing comment would come on my business blog with someone writing, "you are clueless!" or something along those lines. I truly didn't expect someone to try and convince me of my lack of climbing skills, let alone try to convince me I was the sole reason for my recent climbing accident. Geez! Ah well, I must expect such comments if having an online presence.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I appreciate it. Best. Rachel
lil chicka
· 1 year ago
Clearly written by a ball-less, anonymous troll with little to no understanding of what actually happened in either accident scenario.
Phil
· 1 year ago
Yeah, pretty cowardly to have a go like that and not post a name or a link to your own content. Also shows no respect for the victims of the accidents mentioned.
Most of us have been lucky enough to only have had near accidents at worst. In my own case I'm still writing because I triple check everything at the end of the day, when dehydration and tiredness have taken there toll, the third check stopped me from having a fatal accident abing off a multipitch. I still get the shivers when I think about it.
Just in the defence of Irish climbers, most of us do climb with a helmet even on the single pitch stuff. (I hope you're listening Neal!)
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
HA HA... sorry, Phil. I think one climber did have a helmet on that day. But I have climbed many helmet-less days with Neal. I should actually probably start wearing one if I ever hop on a rope again. Thanks for stopping by. Best. Rachel
Kate Calder
· 1 year ago
Wow, wow, wow. What a self-rightous a-hole. I may not have been climbing for 30 years, but I have learned plenty myself, and I completely disagree with his three rules. The idea that the belayer is responsible for the safety of everybody involved is simply ludicrous. The belayer is just a backup system. Here are three reasonable rules: #1 - Each climber is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for their own safety. #2 - Each climber has a personal responsibility to keep themselves safe. #3 - Didn't I just say the same things in #1 & #2? :)
Just to add to Anna's example, Lin Hill's book begins with a "stupid" accident. She didn't finish tying her knot before beginning climbing, and fell 70ft from the anchors. Theoretically, the belayer could have caught this, but it is still her personal responsibility to check and test all of her safety systems, and that's how she bottom-lines her own accident. Lin Hill did not start climbing in a gym. She started climbing before there was such a thing as sport climbing. Even when she had her accident, she was considered a legend in the community. So yes, everybody makes mistakes. Hopefully we will all be lucky enough to accept responsibility and move on with our lives.
Rachel, you did the best you could. And I know the climber was your friend, but I believe each climber has to do everything they can to keep themselves safe. I think your honesty in blogging and posting about the accident are exemplary, and you are a very capable, very good climber.
Kate Calder
· 1 year ago
Oh yeah, and when I wrote, "Lin Hill," I, of course, meant Lynn Hill. :) Oops.
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the comment, girl. When I posted up this comment I was in good spirits... but it is amazing how this guy's words wore on me through the day. It has been 6 weeks since the accident and I am definitely still healing. This one asshole comment really got me thinking about the whole scenario again and how I could have changed it, etc. I don't know if his comment was just to make me feel horrible.. but the thing is I already feel horrible on my own about the whole incident. I am hoping time will just heal things. Thanks for the comment and support. Hope you are well. Best. Rachel
Jun - Craig
· 1 year ago
I just wanted to add my two cents.
I want to just commend you Rachel for 1) your maturity in handling the comment provided by an apparent coward, and 2) above all things your respect for the victims of each accident. They deserve our condolences, not our scrutiny.
Accidents happen. With increased numbers of people climbing they will become more and more prevalent. And with the immediate coverage experiences like this receive thanks to the popularity of the internet they will draw out the bottom feeders, those who are only out there to drag others down to make themselves feel more important.
I'm grateful for friends like you who care enough to share these experiences out of respect and concern for future climbers. Yours was an educated post designed to help anyone who might find themselves in a similar situation, regardless of experience and ability.
Thank you.
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
Jun, Thanks so much for the nice comment and thoughts on climbing accident. I really appreciate you stopping by, reading my blog and posting up your thoughts. Hope you are well. Best. Rachel
Stay strong, lady. It's always amazing to me when folks who pride themselves on their bluntness / honesty / "You can't HANDLE the truth!" demeanor say that they don't apologize for hurting anybody's feelings . . . but then also make it impossible for you to follow up with them. In this vein, I note that the commenter hasn't yet seen fit to comment on *this* post, either. Ehh, it matches my experience as a listserv moderator to a T.
Keep on rockin'.
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
Thanks, Tim. Yeah, I was waiting for a response on this post, but so far nothing. Interesting, eh? I guess I just thought my first scathing blog comment would be on my business blog with someone stating I was clueless... or something along that vein. Must admit it took me by surprise that it was on this blog and concerning a very traumatic experience.
Thanks for the comment. Hope you are well. =) Rach
TimWalker
· 1 year ago
The commenter's absence doesn't surprise me. *Sometimes* you'll get an antagonistic commenter who comes back to fight more, but often it's a drive-by venting. *shrug*
Porscha
· 1 year ago
I am rather surprised that mr. anonymous bothered to post such a large negative comment and hasn't come back to continually criticize. I'm glad he hasn't been back though!
The idea that the belayer is the sole means of safety is just ridiculous. Each person has sole responsibility of their own safety, whether that means making sure that their belayer understands the system and can belay you, they are placing good protection, using a correct anchor system, or anything along those lines. The idea of having a climbing partner is really to have someone else be able to look at your system and hopefully aid in keeping you safe.
That being said, Rachel definitely could have decided not to belay or use a more straight forward belay, but she freely admitted that and posted this account to help everyone avoid a similar mistake. I definitely admire you, Rachel, and your honesty with the situation. Thanks for giving us all a chance to avoid an accident and maybe re-realize just how dangerous climbing can be.
I hope that you can get back on a rope again!
WasatchGirl
· 1 year ago
Thanks for the nice thoughts, Porscha. I greatly appreciated your phone call after the accident and for your continual support. I'm not sure if I will ever get back on the rope, but if not... let's get out and boulder and hike. =) Hope you are well. Rachel
Pat
· 1 year ago
#1 - Each climber is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for their own safety. #2 - Each climber has a personal responsibility to keep themselves safe. #3 - Didn't I just say the same things in #1 & #2? :)
I read a little bit of the douchebags comments to you. I believe the above statement is the correct one not only in climbing but in all aspects of life. If there is any question in a belay or climbing system any confusion at all DONT DO IT. Heal up Marcy you sound like an incredible person!
Dave Decoteau
· 9 months ago
Hi,
I read all about the accident...sucks (accident...not the writing). Thank you for describing it all in detail. I don't necessarily enjoy reading about other peoples misfortunes but I do like to learn from them. I am a 30 yo male and have been climbing (mostly trad) for 13 years. I have climbed all over the US (no international) and have never heard of or read about such a set up for top roping so it is understandable how you could be confused...I was until I saw the pic. I think the persons comments about the accident were a bit scathing no doubt but I can understand their frustration (frustration leads to anger). I think we should all learn from this mistake and take something away from it. I have read numerous accident reports about simple communication errors and have changed my procedures to include a talk with my climber/ belayer about what will go down in regards to lowering off/ rappelling etc. so that we have a game plan that will work before anyone leaves the ground. That leaves less chance of an error (Duh I know). As far as the helmet thing goes...my opinion is... why not? I know that nobody does it and I get some strange looks when I'm rocking a 5.12, 1 pitch, sport lead, but I don't really give a crap cuz my brain is worth more to me than my ego. I don't want to preach but I have a good friend who works with brain injured people and she scared me straight. She told me of a well respected, 40 something doctor who had the misfortune of tripping on some concrete steps, taking a little tumble and knocking her head...She is trying to learn her shapes and colors these days. I know...that can happen to anybody but I keep thinking of catching my leg behind the rope, flipping upside down, and whack! It's over. I just think I'd look a whole lot dumber drooling on myself than wearing my big old sticker covered Ecrin..besides it's good training weight. Come to think of it...maybe I should start wearing it while I boulder...Nahh. To each there own. Be safe out there and thanks for the blog! If your ever in Seattle area feel free to look me up for some route beta or a trip!
Dave:)
Jonesy
· 6 months ago
Pardon my for my language but F#ck that guy/girl. I agree that the belayer is responsible for the safety of the climber but when you are separated by the distance of the entire climb certain things are out of your hands. Instead of berating you over this event I hope the climbing community can learn the simple lesson of weighting their rope EVERY time before coming off direct. That is a lesson sadly learned the hard way by your friend but still she lives to (eventually and hopefully) climb another day.
I know if I were in your shoes I would find it incredibly hard not to blame myself but from an outsider's perspective I hope you can move past this and continue to enjoy climbing. Coincidentally enough I sent Ro' today for the first time and it is an awesome route. Please don't let this memory keep you from it and other excellent climbs. Learn from it - don't lose from it. Take care - and if you're ever climbing in the TN/Ga. and need a catch, feel free to hit me up.
All Comments
Here is just ONE example:
-A climber is doing a trad line that goes out of the view of the blayer for a few pitches and THEY make the decision to not protect the next 10 or 15 feet and fall before they can make another placement and deck
I agree with you on some points where climbers are becoming less careful and cocky. I've seen it numerous times. I also agree with what you say about people who can physically climb hard in the gym and missing out on key basic parts of climbing outside, making them more dangerous. But I think to generalize everyone into those categories is unfair and ignorant.
I agree with Rachel, what were you trying to achieve by posting this and what kind of a coward doesn't even put their name.
Thanks for stopping by the blog.
Hope you are well.
Rachel
I personally enjoy your perspective and admire the fact that you're able to road trip and climb extensively mid-career. Understand that retrospection and accident review is certainly beneficial for preventing similar mistakes from occurring in the future -- but placing blame does nothing to absolve the issue. That's your cross to bear, so to speak. My suggestions is: 1) acknowledge that idiots are out there and will always have something, relevant or otherwise, to say and 2) don't take it personal.
Of course, you can also disable reader comments.
Enjoy the rest of your road trip and keep posting reports, pics and your perspective.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting. One of the best aspects of blogging is the new friends I meet through my posts. So, nice to meet you. =)
Yeah, as a blogger you have to expect people to post up ridiculous comments. I had just hadn't experienced one yet.... at least not on my personal site. It quite shocked me... but is still only one tinge of negativity to the whole pool of positive that has resulted from this site.
Thanks for your thoughts on my travels mid-career. I will keep posting up and hope you stop by again.
Best.
Rachel
Best.
Rachel
Thanks for stopping by and commenting. I appreciate it.
Best.
Rachel
Most of us have been lucky enough to only have had near accidents at worst. In my own case I'm still writing because I triple check everything at the end of the day, when dehydration and tiredness have taken there toll, the third check stopped me from having a fatal accident abing off a multipitch. I still get the shivers when I think about it.
Just in the defence of Irish climbers, most of us do climb with a helmet even on the single pitch stuff. (I hope you're listening Neal!)
Thanks for stopping by.
Best.
Rachel
#1 - Each climber is PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for their own safety.
#2 - Each climber has a personal responsibility to keep themselves safe.
#3 - Didn't I just say the same things in #1 & #2? :)
Just to add to Anna's example, Lin Hill's book begins with a "stupid" accident. She didn't finish tying her knot before beginning climbing, and fell 70ft from the anchors. Theoretically, the belayer could have caught this, but it is still her personal responsibility to check and test all of her safety systems, and that's how she bottom-lines her own accident. Lin Hill did not start climbing in a gym. She started climbing before there was such a thing as sport climbing. Even when she had her accident, she was considered a legend in the community. So yes, everybody makes mistakes. Hopefully we will all be lucky enough to accept responsibility and move on with our lives.
Rachel, you did the best you could. And I know the climber was your friend, but I believe each climber has to do everything they can to keep themselves safe. I think your honesty in blogging and posting about the accident are exemplary, and you are a very capable, very good climber.
Thanks for the comment and support.
Hope you are well.
Best.
Rachel
I want to just commend you Rachel for 1) your maturity in handling the comment provided by an apparent coward, and 2) above all things your respect for the victims of each accident. They deserve our condolences, not our scrutiny.
Accidents happen. With increased numbers of people climbing they will become more and more prevalent. And with the immediate coverage experiences like this receive thanks to the popularity of the internet they will draw out the bottom feeders, those who are only out there to drag others down to make themselves feel more important.
I'm grateful for friends like you who care enough to share these experiences out of respect and concern for future climbers. Yours was an educated post designed to help anyone who might find themselves in a similar situation, regardless of experience and ability.
Thank you.
Thanks so much for the nice comment and thoughts on climbing accident. I really appreciate you stopping by, reading my blog and posting up your thoughts.
Hope you are well.
Best.
Rachel
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/
Keep on rockin'.
Yeah, I was waiting for a response on this post, but so far nothing. Interesting, eh?
I guess I just thought my first scathing blog comment would be on my business blog with someone stating I was clueless... or something along that vein. Must admit it took me by surprise that it was on this blog and concerning a very traumatic experience.
Thanks for the comment. Hope you are well. =)
Rach
The idea that the belayer is the sole means of safety is just ridiculous. Each person has sole responsibility of their own safety, whether that means making sure that their belayer understands the system and can belay you, they are placing good protection, using a correct anchor system, or anything along those lines. The idea of having a climbing partner is really to have someone else be able to look at your system and hopefully aid in keeping you safe.
That being said, Rachel definitely could have decided not to belay or use a more straight forward belay, but she freely admitted that and posted this account to help everyone avoid a similar mistake. I definitely admire you, Rachel, and your honesty with the situation. Thanks for giving us all a chance to avoid an accident and maybe re-realize just how dangerous climbing can be.
I hope that you can get back on a rope again!
Hope you are well.
Rachel
#2 - Each climber has a personal responsibility to keep themselves safe.
#3 - Didn't I just say the same things in #1 & #2? :)
I read a little bit of the douchebags comments to you. I believe the above statement is the correct one not only in climbing but in all aspects of life. If there is any question in a belay or climbing system any confusion at all DONT DO IT. Heal up Marcy you sound like an incredible person!
I read all about the accident...sucks (accident...not the writing). Thank you for describing it all in detail. I don't necessarily enjoy reading about other peoples misfortunes but I do like to learn from them. I am a 30 yo male and have been climbing (mostly trad) for 13 years. I have climbed all over the US (no international) and have never heard of or read about such a set up for top roping so it is understandable how you could be confused...I was until I saw the pic. I think the persons comments about the accident were a bit scathing no doubt but I can understand their frustration (frustration leads to anger). I think we should all learn from this mistake and take something away from it. I have read numerous accident reports about simple communication errors and have changed my procedures to include a talk with my climber/ belayer about what will go down in regards to lowering off/ rappelling etc. so that we have a game plan that will work before anyone leaves the ground. That leaves less chance of an error (Duh I know). As far as the helmet thing goes...my opinion is... why not? I know that nobody does it and I get some strange looks when I'm rocking a 5.12, 1 pitch, sport lead, but I don't really give a crap cuz my brain is worth more to me than my ego. I don't want to preach but I have a good friend who works with brain injured people and she scared me straight. She told me of a well respected, 40 something doctor who had the misfortune of tripping on some concrete steps, taking a little tumble and knocking her head...She is trying to learn her shapes and colors these days. I know...that can happen to anybody but I keep thinking of catching my leg behind the rope, flipping upside down, and whack! It's over. I just think I'd look a whole lot dumber drooling on myself than wearing my big old sticker covered Ecrin..besides it's good training weight. Come to think of it...maybe I should start wearing it while I boulder...Nahh. To each there own. Be safe out there and thanks for the blog! If your ever in Seattle area feel free to look me up for some route beta or a trip!
Dave:)
I know if I were in your shoes I would find it incredibly hard not to blame myself but from an outsider's perspective I hope you can move past this and continue to enjoy climbing. Coincidentally enough I sent Ro' today for the first time and it is an awesome route. Please don't let this memory keep you from it and other excellent climbs. Learn from it - don't lose from it. Take care - and if you're ever climbing in the TN/Ga. and need a catch, feel free to hit me up.